The Real Reason You’re Overwhelmed (And How to Fix It Without Doing More)
Some links on this page may be affiliate links, meaning I may earn a small commission if you purchase through them — at no additional cost to you…I only share what I truly believe in and love!
There’s this moment that happens… and you might recognize it.
You finally sit down at the end of the day.
The house is quieter (ish).
Your body is tired in that deep, almost hum-like way.
And your brain starts scanning:
Did I do enough today?
Was I present enough?
Productive enough?
Patient enough?
Did I move my body?
Eat well?
Show up fully?
And without even realizing it…
you’ve already decided:
Tomorrow, I’ll do better.
More organized.
More intentional.
More disciplined.
More.
And listen — I get it.
Because if you’re here, you care.
You’re not trying to escape your life.
You’re trying to show up fully for it.
For your kids.
For your work.
For the kind of world you want to leave behind.
But here’s the quiet truth that’s been sitting with me lately:
What if the problem isn’t that you need to do more…
What if it’s that you’ve been taught to trust the wrong direction?
women who burn out… are usually the ones doing the most good
It’s not the checked-out ones.
It’s not the ones who don’t care.
It’s you.
The one who:
stays up researching how to do it better
replays conversations to make sure you showed up well
wants your kids to feel safe, seen, and loved
wants your work to mean something
You’re not lazy.
You’re overextended.
And the hard part?
The same part of you that’s creating all this goodness…
is the exact same part that won’t let you stop.What Kids Really Mean When They Say “I Hate School”
I had a moment with one of my kids this year.
She kept saying, “I hate school.”
At first, I brushed it off.
Then I got curious.
And eventually… I realized it wasn’t academic at all.
It was social. Emotional. Relational.
She didn’t feel like she had a place.
And that changed everything.
Because when a child feels like they don’t belong, learning becomes almost impossible..
📣 Listen to NELL 3d on the raising wild hearts podcast:
We’ve been sold a very convincing lie
That more effort equals more impact.
So we stack it.
Better food.
More presence.
More empathy.
More self-awareness.
More habits.
More healing.
And on paper?
It looks beautiful.
But in your body?
It can feel like too much.
Like you’re holding a life that technically works…
but doesn’t feel sustainable.
And instead of questioning the system…
we question ourselves.
What if doing less doesn’t mean you’re failing
What if it’s wisdom?
There’s this idea I can’t shake.
That maybe we’re not meant to carry everything.
That maybe the goal isn’t to optimize every corner of our lives…
but to become more intentional with what we hold.
Not careless.
Not disconnected.
But discerning.
ENERGY IS REAL… and you need to consider it
Not time. Not productivity.
Energy.
Because if you really zoom out for a second…
you already know this is true.
You’ve had:
A 20-minute conversation that filled you up more than a full day of “being productive”
And also…
An hour of something small that completely drained you.
Same time.
Very different impact.
So maybe the question isn’t:
“How do I do more in my day?”
Maybe it’s:
“What is this costing me… and what is it giving back?”We Might Be Helping Too Much
I say this gently… and with so much compassion.
Sometimes, in our desire to help, we:
• step in too quickly
• fix the problem
• smooth over the discomfort
And in doing so, we unintentionally send the message:
“You can’t handle this.”
But what if we shifted that?
What if instead we said:
👉 “This is hard. And I believe you can figure it out.”
That’s how we build confidence in kids.
Not by removing the hard — but by supporting them through it.
The shift isn’t dramatic… it’s subtle
It doesn’t look like quitting your life.
It looks like pausing long enough to notice:
This doesn’t feel good anymore.
And instead of pushing through…
you get curious.
You stop
Not for a weekend retreat.
Not for a full life reset.
Just long enough to ask:
How is this actually going?
Not the polished version.
The real one.
You drop
One thing.
Not everything.
Just one.
A commitment.
A pattern.
A thought you keep rehearsing that isn’t helping you.
(That one alone might change your life, by the way.)
And then… you choose differently
Not because you “should.”
But because you finally have the space to.
Doing less makes room for what matters most
Because when you stop filling every gap…
something else happens.
You start to notice what actually matters.
Not what looks good.
Not what gets approval.
What feels aligned.
And when that happens…
you don’t need more effort.
You need more clarity.
A question I’ve been sitting with
Before saying yes to anything new:
How does this impact…
Me?
We?
World?
Not in a performative way.
Just… honestly.
Does this support me?
Does this support my relationships?
Does this contribute in a way that actually feels meaningful?
It doesn’t have to hit all three perfectly.
But it gives you a lens.
🎥WATCH NELL 3D AND RYANN WATKIN ON THE RAISING WILD HEARTS PODCAST ON YOUTUBE:
And maybe the most freeing part of all of this…
You are not responsible for carrying everything.
You are responsible for your piece.
Your one small, meaningful, human piece of this world.
And when you tend to that well…
the ripple takes care of itself.
If something in this stirred you…
don’t rush past it.
Just notice.
Where are you adding…
when your body is quietly asking you to subtract?
Up Next: Why (some) kids hate school, what to do about it, and making learning more human in the digital age
Resources: Do Less: A Revolutionary Approach to Time and Energy Management for Ambitious Women
-
Why do I feel burned out even when I’m doing everything “right”?
Because “doing everything right” often means doing too much.
You’re likely checking all the boxes — showing up for your kids, your work, your relationships — but you’re doing it in a way that’s not sustainable for your nervous system.
Burnout isn’t always about doing too little or being ineffective.
It’s often about being overextended in ways that look good… but don’t feel good.Is doing less actually realistic for busy moms or working women?
Yes — but it probably doesn’t look like what you think.
This isn’t about quitting your responsibilities or suddenly having hours of free time.
It’s about:
removing one unnecessary commitment
shifting how you spend your energy
or even letting go of one unhelpful mental pattern
Small subtractions create real change over time.
What is “systematic subtraction” in simple terms?
It’s the practice of intentionally removing what doesn’t matter — so you can focus on what does.
Not randomly.
Not reactively.But thoughtfully.
It’s less about doing nothing…
and more about doing the right things with more clarity and less strain.How do I know what to subtract from my life?
Start with awareness, not action.
Ask yourself:
What feels draining lately?
What feels like I’m doing it out of obligation, not alignment?
What am I overthinking that isn’t actually helping me?
You don’t need a full life audit.
Just one honest answer is enough to begin.What if everything in my life feels important?
This is where it gets real.
A lot of what feels “important” is actually:
habit
expectation
or fear of letting someone down
Systematic subtraction doesn’t mean everything is unimportant.
It means not everything is equally important.
That distinction changes everything.
Can doing less really increase my impact?
Yes — and this is the part most people don’t expect.
When your energy isn’t scattered:
your presence is stronger
your decisions are clearer
your relationships feel more connected
You’re no longer spreading yourself thin.
You’re showing up fully where it actually matters.
What does “Me, We, World” actually mean?
It’s a simple way to check alignment in your life:
Me → your well-being, energy, mental and physical health
We → your relationships (family, partner, team)
World → your contribution, purpose, or impact
Instead of pouring everything into one area…
you start creating balance across all three.What if I feel guilty doing less?
That’s normal.
Especially if you’re used to being the one who holds everything together.
But here’s the reframe:
Doing less of what drains you…
allows you to show up better for what matters.That’s not selfish.
That’s leadership.
How do I start if I feel completely overwhelmed?
Don’t try to fix everything.
Just pause and ask:
How is this actually going?
That’s it.
From there, choose one small thing to release.
Not perfectly.
Not forever.Just enough to create a little space.
What’s one simple thing I can do today?
Pay attention to your energy.
Not your to-do list.
Not your productivity.Your energy.
Notice:
what fills you up
what drains you
what feels aligned
what feels forced
That awareness alone will start guiding your next step.
-
Ryann (00:01.305)
Hi Nell welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (00:04.6)
Thank you, Ryan. So happy to be here.
Ryann (00:07.245)
Yes, I'm so happy to have you. And in this space, we have a lot of caregivers and moms and impact professionals, people who really want to make a difference. Like they have that intrinsic motivation to see the world be a better place and really to like shift intergenerational cycles. And we're doing this like really big work because it comes from our hearts, right?
And some of us, right, asking for a friend might be feeling on the edge of burnout perhaps, or maybe like we're hanging on a, you know, by a string and just can't really take it anymore the way it's going. It doesn't feel sustainable or over-giving, and we don't feel like we have anything left for us at the end of the day. So someone who's really like that resonates with right now, what would you say to that person?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (01:07.182)
I've never met anyone like them and I think it's kind of weird, but I guess we can go there. I was kidding. Yeah, no, I mean, that's why I have this passion for doing this work and getting this message out right now, Ryan, because I am worried about, I call these folks the stewards. I love the idea of wild hearts, but I talk about this as stewards, right? And they are stewards of, in some cases, wealth.
Ryann (01:11.749)
Everybody I talk to, yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (01:35.658)
in some cases power, in some cases that next generation, which is the most important thing to Stuart as far as I'm concerned on the planet. And if we are paying attention right now, it's a little bit scary.
And so we are doing, as we have been trained and rewarded and incentivized to do, more. We are cooking healthier food. We are lifting more weights to fend off perimenopause. We are having more empathetic conversations over breakfast and lunch and dinner so that we raise empathetic boys. Like, more.
And my invitation, and what we're gonna dive into today, is that actually, the best thing you can do for whatever, whomever it is that you're stewarding or caregiving, is to start subtracting and doing less.
Ryann (02:34.69)
Yeah, so I feel like I heard an audible like cringe from the other side of the people listening with us right now because I think when we hear that do less we go, my god, all the plates are spinning in the air. All the balls are in the air. If we do less, everything's gonna fall apart. What? How's that even possible?
Like how do we even start considering doing less?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (03:07.714)
Yeah, so great question. Again, not the first time I've heard it. And so the first thing that I'll say is this is not like a four-hour work week kind of like gimmicky subtraction, right? It's not about like let them because you know, if those things have made a difference for people and I know they have, I'm so glad for that. And my audience, I think your audience, that's not quite.
nuanced enough. It either sounds appealing or it just sounds so friggin obnoxious because you're like, I can't. So I get that. And this is not what we're talking about, right? So we'll dive into the mechanics eventually, but it's systematic subtraction. And so it's relational subtraction. And again, we'll get there. the piece, just the headline that I want to share is the magic from the other side, having burnt out, gotten divorced, missed my father's funeral, caused
a head-on collision that could, arguably should have been fatal for me or the people in the other car. Like, no joke, danger, physical danger and harm and risk because I was doing too much.
And so the magic on the other side of that that I have unlocked and I'm now helping and watching other people unlock is that it's not just about doing less. The unlock, the third step of this journey is that you connect dots. You use systems thinking. And so actually you are doing less in terms of stacked tasks, but your impact actually can grow.
Ryann (04:45.634)
Yeah. So yeah, that's amazing. So you say that you're Harvard trained and educated by horses, which I just love that combination because it's like, wait a minute. And when I pictured you trying to ride this horse or get to know this horse or something, maybe you can take us back to that moment. But I pictured you like.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (04:46.594)
That's the prompt.
Ryann (05:10.934)
as this kind of overwhelmed, stressed out kind of person who's causing head on collisions and just really going through the motions, right? Trying to get on this horse being like, I'm gonna ride you now. And this horse being like, the hell you are, lady. And bucking you off. But maybe that's just my movie version of it in my head. What actually went on with that?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (05:16.27)
You
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (05:29.046)
Yeah. So that was the first act. I grew up riding horses a little bit. I never had my own, but I was able to ride kind of once a week and as many weeks of summer camp as I could convince my mom to splurge for. And I got bucked off and thrown face forward into jumps. And, you know, there was definitely that for sure. And, you know, did it has something to do with my gold star junkie 12 to 18 year old self trying to do more? Very possibly.
But that wasn't the education. I didn't get the education then because I was engaging with the horses in a very transactional way. And it turns out when we interact in a really transactional way with friends or colleagues or students or children or neighbors or strangers, we don't actually learn everything they have to give us. And so the educated by horses,
has come more recently in doing coaching with horses in which we do not ride. And so it's a very, it's actually a co-creation collaborative relationship with these horses. Like they are co-coaches with me in the arena, especially with the humans that we're working with, a leadership team or a group of friends or board members, whatever the context might be. And the education there, the...
headline about horses and it's so fun that we're new into fire horse year, right? Because it's so real. And happily I've seen on a lot of the writing, you whether it's astrology or whatever versions of fire horse, that people are starting to get that, you know, this isn't about like fire horse on fire gallop into the year. That may be the superficial read, but that's not authentic horse energy. Horses are prey animals. And so...
everything they do, every freak out that they have, every ear they twitch, every head they shake, whatever they may do, depletes calories that mean they cannot escape from a predator. And so as a matter of survival, they have learned to do the least effortful action to achieve a desired result.
Ryann (07:47.302)
Wow. Okay. I see. So is this like work smarter, not harder if we like kind of tied it in a nutshell?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (07:58.924)
It's aversion. That's the middle piece of my method, right? The drop is that. And that is, yes. So that's absolutely true. Again, I think a lot of us are living pretty optimized lives. We've tried to do that. And so there's some other horse wisdom and two other steps in my process that are also really important. And so we can get there next if you want.
Ryann (08:19.983)
For sure. Yeah, I'd love to hear the other horse wisdom. We were actually, brought my kids to a farm recently on a day off of school. And so we got to be up close and personal with the horses. We didn't ride or anything, but you know, they're just there in the barns. And we walked around and the first thing all of us wanted to do, myself included, is like go up and just like nuzzle this thing. you know, almost like...
when you go home, like you come home and your dog's like really excited to see you, you we want like you expect this horse to be like, yes, I love when you pet my chin there or whatever. And what I noticed is that they were very stoic and they didn't feel like they needed to perform or, you know, give you the pleasure of, wow, that feels so good that you're rubbing my snout like that. Like they were just very stoic is the word that I'm seeing. And
They were also very receptive and open to the kids being there. These horses are around kids quite a bit and they were just very, they seemed gentle and receptive and just kind of like going with the flow. So what other horse wisdom have you observed?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (09:36.066)
Yeah, so that gets to the first point, is that horses, stoic is a fair observation. I would describe it as robustly present.
Ryann (09:44.44)
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (09:45.89)
And if you add on that conservation of energy we just talked about, that's maybe what starts to look like Stoicism, right? But I don't think it's Stoic, certainly not in a cold way, because to your point, they're very engaging, engaged beings. But they are prey animals. They have to be a little careful. And they're just robustly present. And so it's not that they're chilled out under the tree, soaking up the sun and meditating. They're right there.
with you, they're very sensitive, right? They have their hearts are four or five times as big as ours, because they're big creatures. And so the electromagnetic field, right? The physical waves of that heart is four or five times bigger. And so when they're, call it 10 or 15 feet away from you, they're totally plugged into your energy. And so it's not that, you know, so they don't need to nuzzle in close, close, close like I know I do with my Bernadoodles, that I'm imagining you do too with Bodhi. Right?
Ryann (10:42.479)
Totally, he's like a Velcro dog.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (10:45.678)
For horses, they're, you know, they are a little bit more cool cucumbers, but not because they're not deeply present. And again, that's not because they've done leadership coaching. It's because they're prey animals. And so they need to know whether you are part of the herd operating on this approach that they have, or if you're some kind of a risk and they need to be tuned in or to remove themselves, even though that would burn some effort or calories.
Ryann (11:15.119)
Sure.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (11:15.278)
So the presence is a really important one. The last one that I'll share, which is really juicy and people always kind of pop at, is that they have a innate sniffer for authenticity. And the proof of this, or the source of this, again, is not leadership lessons. It is the fact that they're prey animals, and so they coexist in ecosystems with mountain lions, who are one of the primary prey, right?
Even though horses are very big, mountain lion generally would attack on the back and eat the horse. So if horses were always freaked out because there was a mountain lion in the ecosystem, they would be tired, right? And indeed kind of breaking that law or that approach of conserving energy.
What they need to be tuned into is when the mountain lion is not kind of over there sleeping or having a drink at the river or nursing its young or whatever the mountain lion be doing, but when the mountain lion is lion and is hiding because they're about to hunt. And so horses have literally adapted evolutionarily to understand the difference between mountain lion in presence doing its thing and mountain lion pretending to be doing something else.
which might actually be attacking me or someone in my herd. And so that's the final kind of thing to loop it back to humans and our interaction, right? People will say, they can smell my fear. I know they know that I'm afraid. And that's not true. Horses are fine with fear. They do sense it, and so they'll act differently. But what freaks them out, and when you'll see real conflict between horse and human, is when you're there, pretending not to be afraid.
but your heart is beating like crazy, which they can feel through your electromagnetic field, but your physical posture and maybe your whatever is like trying to come on strong and not be afraid. And so it's that inauthenticity is the last piece of wisdom, which we could go on for days about how that speaks to leadership or caregiving in a sustainable way.
Ryann (13:24.911)
Sure. So I love that this conversation came to energy. You use that word that horses conserve their energy. And when we think about our days and how we wake up and how we get out of bed and go through our morning routine and get the kids out of the house or get to work or whatever it might be, right? We've all got that kind of, you know, groove or rhythm that we're into. Like,
When are we feeling very energized? Right? So I want everybody to kind of think right now how their energy wax and waxes and wanes throughout the day, throughout the month, if you're a cycling woman, right? Like all of these nuances with energy. And I would love to really not argue, but say, like, I believe that everything is energy, right? Money is energy. Everything we're inviting into our lives is energy. Like, you know, our
the work that we choose to do. It's all based on energetics. Like yesterday I told you I went to a new moon circle with some sisters to call in the fire horse energy for the lunar new year. And throughout the day I was like, you know, my energy was just waning a little and I thought, I don't know if I'm going to make it tonight. And then like an hour before I was supposed to leave, I had a conversation with a girlfriend and my energy just went like, I was just filled back up.
I just had this like beautiful, short, interactive, like authentic, like, you know, exchange. And I was like, I'm going, like, I'm great, I'm good. And this speaks to so much of what we need to be attuned to in ourselves in the day before we even think about doing a great job at work, being a great leader, being a great caregiver. Like, how are we doing on the inside? Like really doing.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (15:18.188)
Yeah, yeah, it's so elegant and know quantum theory would agree with you. Everything is energy. That's not woo, it's like science. So I think it's a helpful way to think about our impact. And the important thing that I would say, you know, just those waxes and waning and cycles are really important. And the piece that I've come to really see and appreciate, and this is where this massive leverage comes, is that we are not straight lines.
Right? We are not linear in our day, in our thinking, in our careers, in our impact. Like, that's just not real. We're systems. We're systems of brain and body and bones and blood. And we live in systems of other people in our family, our organization, our community, our ecosystem, the trees, the squirrels. Right? But extractive, patriarchal, racist, misogynistic capitalism
has taught us about this linear way of doing things, right, in this industrial era production line.
Ryann (16:23.738)
Those are the mountain lions, yeah?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (16:26.156)
Maybe. Don't give mountain lions a bad name, but yes, maybe. And so this is the systematic piece of systematic subtraction is that when we realize that we are systems, when we remember, because we know we were born that way, as women particularly, we know this, but we've been untaught it. And so we doubt ourselves. But when we remember that we are a system in many complex systems, then we
Ryann (16:28.046)
Yeah. Sure. Sure.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (16:54.462)
there's opportunity to see that point that not every, that first of all, energy is not a line. We don't just draw down through the day and then we're out. We can break ourselves up with one great conversation with a friend or a few deep breaths or a little doggo cuddle, right? These are all things. Or doing work that we love, right? We've all done two hours, five hours, 10 days, 20 minutes of work and come out feeling more energized than before, like.
Ryann (17:13.947)
Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (17:22.658)
We've done 20 minutes of maybe a mind-numbingly basic task and felt totally drained for the rest of the day. So it's very important and powerful to recognize that and analyze what you're doing in a given day, week, month based on the actual energy, cost, or benefit to you. And that's the unlock to get this not doing more, maybe even doing less, or doing the same.
but having an outsized impact and thus feeling the satisfaction of that impact and caregiving or stewardship that comes back.
Ryann (18:01.306)
Right. And you were in a very high impact on paper, I'm assuming position. And there was a point where you realized like you weren't actually making the impact you wanted or something just felt off within you. Like take us back to that moment.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (18:19.522)
Yeah. So at 12, I switched school districts and I moved from a very under-resourced urban district in Hartford, Connecticut, where I had had a fabulous elementary school experience but would not have had a lot of support or even physical safety in the middle school. And we moved across a town line to a very well-resourced nationally recognized suburban public school system where I did have a lot of support and resource that launched me off to Harvard and, you know, all the things that have followed.
And so I had this very early sense of impact, like as a precocious, you know, kind of nerdy 12 year old, I was like, I want to fix that. Like opportunity should be distributed more equitably because talent is distributed equally through the population. And so I was like, I'll go to nonprofit work because in the late nineties, two thousands, that's what you did if you wanted to have impact. And so I did. And Ryan, I spent 10 years like digging like a mole to get like closer to the source of impact. Like I want to see the life that I change. I want to see them.
And I did that, and so I landed in the West Bank of Palestine, building a community center and literally working with children and their moms in mental health issues and the comments and the change was real. And then, you know, I was getting to my late 20s and seeing friends in New York kind of be mentored and pay off student loans and get these other promotions and professional opportunities, and that was not happening.
in the militarily closed West Bank town where I was living. So that was a little bit of a red flag, but again, I was doing this work that was so deeply aligned. And my dad died in his early 50s of brain cancer. And I chose to not go to his funeral.
Ryann (20:01.444)
Why?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (20:03.286)
There wasn't time. I'm needed here. It's so important for me to be here. I'm not making much money. across, you know, intercontinental, across the planet, plane from Palestine to California was tough. My boss probably would have helped. So that's a little bit of a cop out. But I was in my one dimensional rot of impact. And then within 12 months, my marriage fell apart and I got divorced.
Ryann (20:32.794)
So you're like, okay, I just skipped my dad's funeral. I'm divorced. Now what? Was there a third? Was there a third? You're now 3D. Was there a third thing or was that just it? That was already the frosting on the cake.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (20:34.495)
Okay.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (20:44.878)
I know. There must have been, Ryan. I'm gonna have to think harder about that, because I've had another little series of awakenings in this decade of my life, and those certainly came in three. So I'll have to dig a little harder for the other. But the point was, and you know, obviously it took a while to metabolize this, but I made some pretty immediate choices. I resigned, I enrolled in an MBA program that was based between London and New York, so I could get home a little closer to family and friends, and open myself to some of that professional growth that I wanted, be closer to family, all that.
Ryann (20:54.935)
Yeah, they're... Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (21:15.116)
The wisdom in reverse, so please listeners, you don't have to do that. Don't miss your dad's funeral unless you don't want to go and don't get divorced unless you want to get divorced. Don't regret anything, but let me save you a little trouble by saying that this version of one dimensional success is not sustainable, is certainly not satisfying. And so I think the traditional story for a lot of stewards is money or power or career, right? That's what our system kind of drives toward.
But it doesn't matter which one dimension you're working on. It's not sustainable. And so the three dimensional approach that I've come to really value and practice literally daily in every decision, small, big, and large, that I'm making is me matters, my holistic well-being. So intellectual, physical, mental, all the forms of my own well-being. We.
My team, my professional we, an organization, and my family, my personal we, are right in that dimension together. They matter. And then world, but in a very discerning, specific way of what is my work to do, right? This is not about a shame-based, I gotta end racism, I gotta save the Amazon, I gotta heal our democracy. Like, sorry, you are, I do not doubt, a total...
Wonder Woman, you are not capable of doing any of those things on your own. Spoiler, right? So what is your one eight billionth? Because if all eight billion of us do that teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny little slice, the world will be healed. And so we've got to constantly be in touch with these three dimensions. They don't all have to be perfect. They don't all have to be operating at full tilt, but they've got to be on the radar.
Ryann (22:42.471)
Spoiler alert.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (23:05.198)
so that we're balanced and pursuing success in a more holistic way.
Ryann (23:11.227)
Yes. So I think it was Seth Godin in This Is Marketing when he said like, you can't have this like big lofty goal of like, you're going to change the world. Like I always say on this podcast, we change the world by starting at home. And essentially Seth Godin told me that's a cop out. And I'm like, thanks a lot, Seth. But I get what he's saying because it's much of what you just described of
I'm not changing the world by doing this podcast, but what I am changing the world by is this very small, like you said, tiny slice of my one of the eight billion work that I do day in and day out, which I call chopping wood and carrying water after the monk, Buddhist, Zen parable that I like. So yeah, I love that. That's where the 3D comes in. I'm glad that you said that. Now,
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (23:52.001)
I'm in.
Ryann (24:05.509)
We're like, okay, me, okay, self care. I'm gonna love myself, I'm gonna take care of myself, yes. We, family, okay, I'm gonna nourish them well, I'm gonna work life balance, I'm gonna set up the system so that I can spend time, right? And world, okay, we're doing some sort of meaningful work, whether that's in our formal job or not. So what if we're still feeling a little stretched thin? Then what? Is this where the stop, drop and roll comes in now?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (24:33.74)
You're so good. So good. That's exactly it. So 3D is like our constant lens. We have to be of constantly in touch with that. And then by systematically subtracting the pieces that are less important, we can find these win-win-wins. And that's that leverage, right? Where one event or one effort is actually multitasking.
Ryann (24:35.964)
Ha
Okay.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (25:01.496)
We're not multitasking, texting and riding a bike to pick up kids and making a grocery list with an audio, you know, whatever. But our efforts are multitasking in those three dimensions. So, stop is the essential, often overlooked, sometimes slightly uncomfortable, but very powerful essential piece. And you actually already said it, which is how is this actually going?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (25:32.226)
Because there's so much noise and so many shoulds and so much pressure and so much uncertainty and chaos and change that it is really easy to think or forget for a moment in our heads, it's going great. I've got the job, I've got the kids, I'm keeping it together. I might feel hanging by a string, but that's okay. That's how it's supposed to feel, that's normal.
And again, remembering how this actually feels. So that stop is not about go off to the mountain with the Buddhists and retreat for a month. If you can and want to do that, like divorce, totally an option for you on the table. But you don't have to. that doesn't count for your stop. Your stop is like the horse in the paddock, present.
Ryann (26:10.513)
Damn it.
Ryann (26:14.629)
Right. Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (26:25.016)
connected, conscious of that kid over there. If that kid over there starts, I don't know, throwing Nerf balls or something, I may need to step away from that kid. If that kid is just kinda being a kid and hanging out, I can stay at this distance, right? But collecting some data is the point here. And that might be a spreadsheet that you write every week on me, we, and world and how it's going and your days of exercise and your days of no alcohol and your bank balances and how you're feeling in your relationship.
That's been working really well for me as part of it for four and a half years or so. So if you love that, by all means, that counts as data. It also might be, gosh, I've not felt good in my gut for the last few weeks. What's that about? Or, you know, I've been sick all winter this year and I know the flu and I know the germs and I know the kids, but like, I'm not usually sick for three months running.
What's that about? Or I am so friggin' tired, I can't keep my eyes open through my favorite show. Or I'm not sleeping, and I actually feel kinda wired, but that's not normal either, right? So internal, external, in the moment, longitudinal, like whatever the data is, and however you get to that stop, I can't tell you. Maybe it's running, maybe it's cooking, maybe it's cuddling with the dog, maybe it's meditation.
Whatever, right? You have to pick your path, but you gotta stop and check in internally.
Ryann (27:59.708)
I want to speak to this stop because I have a girlfriend who just put this app on her phone to stop her from going on Instagram. And she said when she has a few minutes of downtime in the day, she'll just like, let's go on Instagram. Like many of us do. And it's making her very uncomfortable. She's just in the first few days of doing it. But she was like, and I'm going and I'm opening and I'm like, yeah, that's right. I don't want to do that anymore.
This is that stop moment, the invitation that we all have to kind of like feel that discomfort for 30 or 60 seconds, like notice, observe like that really present horse that is, you know, just kind of with it, right? And then really being honest with ourselves. Okay, so that stop, yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (28:48.13)
Yeah. And just as a note, do not feel bad about this, right? I think it's easy to say, like, I'm like an adult woman with a bunch of graduate degrees and a lot of work to do in the world and a lot of passion, and I'm getting sucked in to, like, watch, like, the latest round of, ski clothes that are on sale for five or 10 or 25 minutes. Like, really?
It's kind of shameful, potentially. But there is so much money and so much talent in that infrastructure sucking you in. Do not feel bad. It's literally woman against the machine. So just a moment of grace to understand and props to your friend for building that system to help.
Ryann (29:13.977)
Yeah, yeah.
Ryann (29:27.131)
Yeah.
Ryann (29:30.691)
Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (29:40.458)
push back against the machine of some of our smartest engineers in this lifetime who have been working so hard on that. Unfortunately, another topic for another pod, but you know, just recognize like...
Ryann (29:52.531)
Totally, not to mention behavioral psychologists too, who just are so tapped into our desires and our needs and our whims, that whole thing. Come on Instagram feeling this way and walk out with spending $200 on whatever it is, right? You can go shopping on Instagram now. Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (30:02.808)
Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (30:11.266)
Yeah, yeah. So just a, you know, a kind of not a past because you still got to stop, no excuses, but just recognize it is uncomfortable and that feels silly sometimes. You're like, I can't break up with this app. Like God, is wrong with me? But it's not you. It's the system. It's, an intense force. Then we drop. Once we have stopped and checked in with how it's really going.
Ryann (30:18.118)
Yes. Yep.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (30:35.372)
doesn't mean we have all the answers, doesn't mean that we've done a five-year controlled randomized study, but we have a little information, we think something might be a little off in our diet, in our parenting, in our workload, whatever the thing is. And so now we experiment with letting go of something. So this isn't like, I'm never going to that gym again, or I am never gonna wake up and look at my phone, or I'm never accepting another stretch assignment from that manager.
It's like, what if I didn't go to that recurring meeting this week where I don't have decisional responsibility and I haven't spoken up in the last seven weeks, so chances are I might not this week either. What if I don't go? You don't even have to decline the invite. You don't have to make excuses. You don't have to make a big plan, maybe, right? Use your judgment, people, obviously here. But as an example, what if you just don't go? And look, if next Tuesday at 2 p.m., you're like,
God, I wish I were in that meeting. You can go back. You're still on the invite. But if in that hour you were able to knock out some emails or get the kids doctor appointment scheduled or look at the sky for five minutes on Instagram and you had more impact than you did in that previous usage of that hour, maybe that's an experiment to stick with.
Ryann (31:59.601)
Love it. So I feel like everybody right now is racking their brain of like, what's the thing I'm going to drop? What's the thing I'm going to drop? And I'm kind of like playing with it for myself of like, what could I drop? And I'm like, I love dropping stuff. like, I, I, maybe I need to pick something else back up. In fact, I don't know. I've dropped a lot of stuff. Okay, good. Let's roll then.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (32:15.596)
We're gonna roll in a minute. Don't pick anything up yet, Koy Ryan. Well, here's a gimme if people are in that span of what can I drop? Because again, these are optimized lives. Like I'm under no illusion that you're sitting binging Netflix for 10 hours on Tuesday through Friday. Like it's pretty optimized lives. What if you subtracted unhelpful thinking?
Ryann (32:26.098)
came.
Ryann (32:39.334)
Yes. Perfect.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (32:43.437)
Right?
Ryann (32:44.06)
Yes. Or, know, okay, you know what I'll drop? After I go to like a meeting or a networking event or like a thing, I'll like play in my head of like, I said that. Was that weird? Could I have said that a different way? I'm like, why am I doing that to myself? I'm subtracting that. Okay. Yeah. Are you right? Okay, good. Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (32:57.271)
Check that.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (33:02.488)
Yes, but those are the sneaky ones, because I bet it's not on your to-do list, right? Yeah, but so build yourself some little ritual as you're leaving an event and block it. Really important. The role is now that I've freed up this time or energy or effort or all, you know, some combination of all three, how, if I connect the dots between
Ryann (33:16.296)
Okay, love it. So the ritual, yep.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (33:32.012)
the me and the we and the world goals that matter to me, how might I make that time matter more and have more impact?
So like the Tuesday recurring meeting that you're not going to, first of all, you now have an hour of time, right? And so you can use that intentionally and allocate it to something that matters. The really fun part that I would suggest is that you also might start talking about that and modeling it for your team members.
Right, and so now the simple act of not doing a thing becomes generous, wise leadership to the people in your life, whether that's your direct colleagues, maybe you can have the conversation with your manager or not. Again, I recognize there might be some sensitivity there. Or with kids, you know, or with friends and saying, hey, I just gave this up. I know I'm really missing social connection to some of my dearest friends. Is there any chance that you could find
a way to get free Tuesday from one to two and we could have a Zoom date or meet for coffee if we're close or do words with friends simultaneously, write and play a little, whatever that might be. And so that's the role. This is where we're connecting the dots between our various goals, between what matters to us and finding ways that that action that either something that we are choosing to keep that we feel like we can't subtract, but can you...
give it more meanings.
Ryann (35:06.056)
Mmm. You want to know something I started somewhat recently was a walk with me Wednesday podcast episode where I would record an episode while I'm walking and I'm walking anyway. And actually it's turned out so great. So periodically I'll do this and it's like, two birds, one stone. Is it that kind of a thing? Okay.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (35:12.494)
Okay, you're here.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (35:25.75)
A thousand percent. A thousand percent. And then again, you get the freebie of modeling that, right? And saying to your listeners, it's okay to do this. Physical movement is good and my breath might be a little funky or the background noise might not be perfect, but you're still hearing me, right? And maybe they'll go walk, right? And now you started with that idea of ripples. The ripples are free. And so it's just about, you know, making sense of them. And, you know, sometimes people are like, okay, well, that kind of feels like
Ryann (35:31.997)
Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (35:55.107)
whitewashing or like a cop-out, right? Like I'm already doing it. But you know what? It's not, it's energetic. When we explicitly connect the dots and make these connections for ourselves, but also for other people, it's energetic. We are meaning making beings, right? That's kind of the unique piece of humans compared to our fabulous Bernadoodles is that we make sense of things. And so...
rather than kind of saying, I'm ambitious and so I'm gonna do as many things as I can do in my waking hours to sleep when I'm dead. We say, I am making the most of every moment on this planet. And that means sometimes walking and doing a podcast and other times it means looking up at the sky and not buying into the attention infrastructure economy of scanning on sale ski clothes or whatever your habit might be.
Ryann (36:45.096)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm hearing you say is like, have the choice to decide what our lives look and feel like. Like, of course, there are some obligatory things that we have to do. Like, yes. And also we get to kind of flow with this new way of being that's a little outside of the box that wasn't as we were taught or told how to be, how to do. This is the good way to do things, but we get to kind of like,
make up our own rules, so to speak. And as a Aquarius slash rebel, I dig that. Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (37:23.214)
Totally. I think that there's different versions of this, right? There's the Buddhist, like, pain is inevitable, welcome to the human experience, but suffering is not. And that's all about the story that you're telling, right? Or the brilliant Viktor Frankl and Man's Search for Meeting, who survived the Holocaust. Like, is there a more brutal human experience to have survived? And he said, if you have the right why, you can survive almost any how. And so...
Ryann (37:35.506)
Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (37:52.909)
you know, don't want to get into kind of a blaming the victim or like just suck it up and endure patriarchal, misogynistic, racist capitalism. Let's change it. And that kind of systems change is going to take some time and going to take some pressure from inside. So it's important to have this skill or to remember our agency to make meaning of what we're doing in a productive, healthy way.
Ryann (38:18.919)
Yeah. What do you think it is about these really driven, ambitious women, know, men too, but these really like high impact individuals that makes them maybe you agree with this, maybe you don't, more susceptible even to overwhelm or burnout? What is that?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (38:41.454)
We are, I 1,000 % agree that we are, the stewards, the helpers, we are more susceptible to it. And it's a double-edged sword. It's because that kind of 3D drive is so motivating. Like, it lines up perfectly with Desi and Ryan intrinsic motivation elements, right? You've got autonomy, you've got meaning and connection, and you've got purpose. Or sorry, mastery is the we, right? You have autonomy, mastery, and purpose.
Ryann (38:43.549)
Okay.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (39:09.11)
And so when we're 3D, we are so intrinsically motivated that we keep going. The shadow, the downside is that we have disembodied ourselves, first of all, as heads. And we live in a system that tells us it's our fault that we're on Instagram buying ski clothes or that work is misogynistic or whatever. And so...
we have fallen into that, again, that gold star addiction of like, okay, well, I have to do more and now I have to do more. And it's actually really motivating to do it because we care so much. And so it's a brutal Catch-22. And that's why we've gotta build this muscle of subtraction. This is not like, come on the retreat for the weekend or sign up for the mini course on systematic subtraction, you're fixed. It's a lifelong.
unlearning, relearning paradigm shift from more, more, more addition to systems of subtraction.
Ryann (40:11.461)
What are you subtracting from your life these days now?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (40:14.846)
Very salient, good question. So a bunch of things, of course, you know, I submitted my book proposal last summer and that was kind of the first like congealing of this systematic subtraction and got an agent so exciting in the end of the year and now we're working on the proposal to really bring it out. And so it was quiet for, you know, it's holidays and we didn't really talk too much for those few months and now we're back at it.
And so I picked up the proposal and specifically the table of contents four months after I had the last version. I really hadn't looked at it. And Ryan, how much fun to see that this practice of, know, I'm literally every day I write a prompt for people to either stop or drop or roll or kind of celebrate and integrate. And I've learned so much and it's gotten so much more enhanced and I've been making my own choices. So a few very specific fun ones. I have been working with a trainer again.
building muscle to combat perimenopausal symptoms, great, loving it. And then I was like, how about this? And how about this? And I'll add this, and I'll add this, like Pilates, which is actually pretty brutal strength work. And for a month in the fall, I had a neck thing, right? I couldn't really look that way over my shoulder. I couldn't look the dot, like, ooh. And so I was like, what's actually going on here? How is this actually going? Like muscle count increasing, great, weights increasing, but like, neck tweaked.
I'm not old enough for that to be a thing. And so I subtracted all but two days of strength work a week and did like very soft feeling yoga and leaned into walks as exercise and my neck didn't tweak anymore.
So that's a great one. Another really fun one recently was a board membership that I can share briefly. I was, you know, was, I closed down my company and was moving into this speaking, writing world. Great, exciting, and new, saw, heard that boards would be a good outlet at some point for me to share my knowledge and skills and energy. And so I was looking for some nonprofit boards and this great startup really aligned not industry wise, but this idea of.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (42:25.13)
assets and resources and business models for non-profits. I was like, great. We actually need a treasurer. If you have an MBA, see like, I'm like, totally, can handle, I've run my own business, I can handle basic finances. So I'm like, I'll be treasurer. And that means you're the head of the finance committee and then membership feels really aligned with some of your facilitation skills. Why don't you chair that? Great, so exciting. And all of a sudden like that in one day, I have eight.
to 10 hours a quarter of recurring meetings. On my calendar. Boom, like that.
Ryann (42:59.251)
Wow. Like just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (43:04.748)
That, that. And so I, at the end of the year, I said to the executive director who I had come to really love and appreciate and value, I'm like, Kate, gotta, I can't do this. I gotta resign. have to find a new board member. And she's like, no, you could not be committee chairs and exec committee. You could just be on the board. I was like, that novel.
Ryann (43:26.109)
novel. Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (43:28.77)
Look, but Kayden loves working with you on some of this stuff and really thinking through the strategy. She's like, so why don't you pro bono coach me for an hour a quarter? 90 minutes? It's like, ugh. I like, I love running these meetings because I'm good at it and they're less boring when I run them. They're a bit more engaging. She's like, great. Why don't you help me for 30 minutes before each board meeting, quarterly? So I go from 10-ish hours a quarter to 2-ish hours a quarter, feeling so much more engaged.
utilized, excited, and being far more impactful, because I'm not like late on every friggin' Treasurer's Report and like looking to the Vice Treasurer, I'm like, Bill, I don't know, did you get this one? Like, help. So that was another really juicy subtraction. So again, the subtraction label is catchy, right? And subtract to succeed, like again, I think right now that sounds very compelling. And this is not a simple like red pen.
Ryann (44:12.742)
Yeah.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (44:26.166)
Just stop doing it. You only need four hours a week to get it done. It's false. There's a lot of work to do. We are stewarding the most important people and energies on this planet. So please spend 20 hours or 50 hours or whatever you have to give, but do it in a very intentional, leveraged way so that it is working for you and for the people around you and the impact you care about.
Ryann (44:49.669)
What's a really good question we can ask ourselves before we say yes to something new?
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (44:54.99)
You know, I think just the simple screen, like, what's the, how does this play out for me? Is it exciting? Is it fun? Is it a skill I want to build? Is it uncomfortable in a good way? Is it, am I going to dread it every week? Right? And then we, what does this mean? Is this something I want to model to my kids? Is this going to impact date night? Is this going to creep on my managing?
approach and what I do for my team, right? Like, what's the we implication? And then world. And again, neither to be grandiose nor to be kind of negative in a Seth Coden way. Bless him, love him. But just in the middle, like, how does that impact my world that I care about, right? Does that help a local business owned by a woman a little bit? Cool. That matters to me, right? Does that demonstrate that I'm working on becoming more anti-racist?
and leaning into my power as a white woman. Maybe a little bit, right? But just do that screen. And it doesn't have to be a dissertation thesis, but just 10 seconds. Me, gut check, we, world. Is there any impact there at all? Positive, negative, neutral, and what does that mean? It doesn't mean they have to be 10 out of 10, all three. But just doing that filter has been really helpful for me.
Ryann (46:14.449)
Right, love the information that you share. Your Substack is amazing. You have so much content over there. Subtract to Succeed is what it's called, but I will link it up in the description so you guys can go find out on Substack. I already did, it's amazing. Nell3D, thank you so much for being here. This conversation was so impactful.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (46:39.168)
I'm so glad. And Ryan, as a tidbit, I'll send you the 90-day guest pass because I have paywalled the daily practice and the course, not as a huge revenue driver, but just, first of all, we all got to get paid for our work. But a lot of companies reimburse, so that's one option. And I just want people to be there. So if people are invested and curious and finding it helpful, no worries at all. Send the guest pass over and love to have your audience members hanging out with us.
Ryann (47:06.281)
Thank you so much. Yes, please send that and I will link that down below as well. Thank you so much again. I love this conversation so much.
Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey (47:13.848)
Thanks, Ryan. Happy Fire Horse Year.
Ryann (47:15.802)
Happy Fire Horse Year indeed!
