Dealing with Grief and Accessing Joy Through the Process with Angela Clement

When the rug gets pulled out from under you—whether it's the quiet fading of a beloved grandparent or the sudden, devastating shock of losing a partner—our culture gives us one script: Be strong. Don't cry. Move on.

But what if trying to be "strong" is the very thing keeping you stuck?

This conversation with the incredible Angela Clement—a former principal, a speaker, and an energy healer, who lost her husband unexpectedly—is about getting real about the grief process.

Angela teaches us that grief isn't an emotion to avoid; it’s a necessary, powerful transformation. It’s a messy, unpredictable road paved with anger, jealousy, and sadness, and all of it deserves to be felt.

Grief is an act of Emotional Intelligence and an invitation to deeper Conscious Living. You don't get around the pain; you go through it, and on the other side is an awakening that enhances your capacity for happiness.

In this episode, Angela Clement and Ryann Watkin talk about:

• The surprising truth: the only way to experience true joy is to fully allow yourself to feel the depth of your pain first.

• How cultural norms tell us we shouldn’t cry, shouldn't be angry, and how that leads to emotional suppression and stagnation.

• The difference between grief (the inner emotional landscape) and mourning (the outward expression of loss).

• Practical ways to show up for friends who are experiencing loss, and why asking for an action (like, "Can I bring you a coffee on Tuesday?") is better than a vague "Let me know if you need anything."

• The powerful realization: Grief has been the greatest teacher of Angela’s life, leading to a deeper, more joyful life she never expected.

Chapters

00:00 Navigating Grief in Modern Culture

02:41 Transforming Pain into Purpose

05:04 Redefining Grief: A Personal Journey

06:21 Facing Mortality: Lessons from Loss

09:05 Connecting Beyond Death

11:43 The Impact of Death on Life Choices

14:23 The Process of Grieving: Emotions and Healing

17:13 Learning to Feel: Breaking the Cycle of Numbing

19:59 The Dark Night of the Soul: Seeking Support

22:17 Navigating the Journey of Healing

24:27 Understanding Grief and Mourning

29:06 The Process of Grief: Emotions and Expressions

35:51 Celebrating Life and Honoring Memories

37:56 Cultural Perspectives on Grief and Support

Up Next: Pain into Purpose with Crissy Florio

Resources: Find out more about her work as a certified H.O.P.E. grief coach or join Angela’s grief support group.

Full transcript of this conversation with Ryann Watkin and Angela Clement:

Ryann: 00:34

Welcome back to the show. Today I'm sitting down with Angela Clement. She's a former school principal, she's a speaker, a writer, an energy healer, and host of the Awaken Your Souls Journey podcast. Angela lost her husband unexpectedly in 2021, and now she teaches on brief. This conversation was so timely for me because my family and I lost my beloved 98-year-old grandma last week, actually the night before the first day of school here from our kids. And so I talk about it in the interview. At one point, my husband looked at me, looked me square in the face and said, When are you gonna grieve? And I tell the story about how I ended up grieving. I really wanted it to be a conversation about how we deal with grief in our culture. And so if you're not currently dealing with grief, I'm sure you have dealt with grief. I'm sure you have someone in your life who's dealing with grief. And I want to really normalize like showing up for somebody. So we talk a lot about emotional intelligence and how to feel our feelings and the difference between grief and mourning. And then, of course, also how Angela turned her pain into purpose. And Angela's also defined grief in a way that I think is really, really helpful for so many of us because it helps us kind of zoom out and take a look at what grief actually is and the different steps that need to happen in order for us to still live happy and fulfilling lives, even if we've lost someone we love. So I hope you guys enjoy this conversation as much as I did. It's practical, it's heartfelt, and I can't wait for you guys to hear it. So let's jump in. Hi, Angela. Welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

Angela: 02:33

It's fun to be here.

Ryann: 02:35

Yeah, I'm really excited that you're here. And this conversation, of course, is perfect timing for a couple of different reasons. And I just, the universe has been so funny lately, and God has been just like winking at me with uh timing of different conversations that I've had. And this is one of those. Um, and we'll get into a couple different reasons for that. But first, I really want to frame this conversation as a cultural kind of dialogue about how we manage or deal with grief in our culture, in North America at least. Um, and maybe some things that we get wrong about it and some different ways to think about it and then to support ourselves and others really in this grief process because we are human, and as we know, we are all going to lose somebody or have, you know, something happen to us that produces a feeling of loss in our lives. And so I'm really excited to dive into this conversation. With that being the frame, first I want to start with you, Angela, and just what a testament your work is to turning pain into purpose. So would you just like speak on that pain into purpose piece for a little bit?

Angela: 03:56

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I had no idea what grief was going to do. I really just thought that um I didn't know what to think. The rug had been pulled out from underneath of me, and I felt like with my husband gone, uh, my entire life had changed. And it seemed like because I retired as well at the same time, and we moved to a new community, it it was just like everything had changed. So there was so much loss and so much grief all at once. And it felt like, you know, we even lost two pets in there. We lost our dog and our cat in that time frame. And so it was just so much. And I I felt myself wondering what life would be like now, because it had been amazing up until that point. I felt like I had the best life. And I wondered if that was the end, if that was the end of all the fun, if that was the end of the happiness, that I would just live the rest of my life in pain. And so I went out seeking. And you talk about cultural things, you know, there was a lot of messages out there that were telling me that yes, I would grieve for a lifetime. And that was devastating for me, you know, to hear that I was going to be in this much pain for the rest of my life. And there wasn't a lot of people that could I could talk to really. And I felt like culturally, we don't talk about grief, we tend to kind of avoid it. Like we don't want to talk about death, we don't want to talk about people leaving our lives. It feels scary, and and so I I didn't know what to do. So I was looking for hope. I was looking for someone who said, you know what, you are gonna get over this, you are gonna get through this, you are going to be happy again, and so it took a while, but I did find that hope. And I am so grateful today that there are people out there that will talk about grief, that will help you through this process. And grieving forever has a totally different um perspective for me than it did back then. It certainly isn't a devastating thing anymore.

Ryann: 06:42

Right. How is it shifted for you?

Angela: 06:44

Yeah, I think that it was the definition of grief that really shifted it for me. And when you look in the dictionary, the definition of grief is very different, even among dictionaries. I think because everybody's grief is so different. It depends on the relationship you had with the person you lost or the thing you lost. Grief became a process that helps us let go of something that we've lost. And it's, I believe it's a God-given process because when we come to this earth, we're going to experience loss right from the beginning when we leave the womb. We've left a place that we were happily hanging out. And sometimes we have to leave our favorite teacher to move on to the next grade, or we have to leave home to go to university. Those are all losses and they all have us experiencing grief. And so I believe the process of grief is continuous because we are always letting go of something.

Ryann: 07:51

One of the things you said is that we don't talk about grief so much in our culture and you didn't have anybody really to talk to. I wonder if part of losing someone specifically we love to death forces us, invites us rather, to face our own mortality. And I wonder if we just can't handle that in so many ways. And so we bypass it, we brush it under the rug, we numb it because we don't want to face the fact that we are all actually going to die and reckoning with how are we gonna live?

Angela: 08:28

I believe that grief really forces you to look at that, and it is interesting because since I lost my husband, the fear of death is not like it was for me, because I feel like it's not the end, it's a transition to something new, and so it's not something to be afraid of, and it's not something to be sad about necessarily, although we lose that physical connection, and that's really hard and it's really devastating. But uh understanding that they're not gone, that they're still around us is how I got through this, and so and that's how many um understand that. And I think coming to terms with your own faith and your own truth and your own understanding, I think is the best thing. It doesn't mean that my truth is your truth, everybody has their own faith and understanding about life, but it does force you to look at it and to figure it out for you.

Ryann: 09:45

Yeah. So since we're recording this, it's been about four years, right, since your husband's passing. How do you find that you connect with him these days?

Angela: 09:57

Um I find that he like for me, I had an experience before he passed away where I felt like I was sitting beside him and I felt this energy kind of going up. And and I felt like it was connecting with his energy. And it was this strange experience that I can't really hardly explain. But after he passed, I realized that I could use that same connection to connect to his essence and feel his energy, and so I'm always feeling it around me, and I often will get little um either messages or signs that he is there, and and so it's very comforting to know that. And I've also in the process of my grief um worked with energy healing and energy healers a lot, and sometimes messages would come through them as well, and they would be just blow your mind profound. And so it really helped comfort me, understanding that he is truly here with me, and I can feel his presence now, actually. Um, and it's not that we necessarily have a two-way conversation all the time, but it is like I can talk to him and just know that he's there, and I know what he's I guess what he's um that that love and support is there, and I can feel it.

Ryann: 11:41

Yeah. What do you think death can teach us about life?

Angela: 11:47

Uh well, I think that one thing I really learned is that you know, this life is one life. We know that, and we want to live it to the fullest. We don't want to waste it. And so what I've found is I see things that are important to me, and I see the things that are less important, and there is a huge distinction now. It used to be before I would just accept whatever was coming and kind of roll with whatever, and now I'm a little more deliberate in, you know, if I really don't want to do something, I pretty much don't do it. Amen to that. But it's like sure there are things that you there are choices that you can make in life. And if you want to go on that trip or you want to, you know, learn something new, then you just do it. You don't wait for retirement, you don't wait for, you know, well, when my kids are gone, you know, you just do it now. Yeah.

Ryann: 13:06

So my grandmother transitioned a we about a week ago. It was Sunday night, and it was Sunday night around 11 p.m. And my I never keep my phone ringer on. And for some reason, my phone ringer was on that day. And so my husband woke up to my phone ringer, and it was my mom calling in the middle of the night saying that my grandmother had passed in her sleep. She was 98 and she had just a full, rich, beautiful life. She was surrounded by family for many of the last like years. I mean, this woman had family in and out, just you know, loving her for the past number of years, myself included. And so um it was an interesting thing because the next day was the first day of school for my kids. And it was, we, you know, we kind of woke up in the night. My husband told me what happened because he's the one who answered the phone. I snuggled up with him, I let him kind of hold me, and we drifted off to sleep. And then it's like up and at him, you know, and we're getting the kids ready for school and we're making the breakfast and the lunches and taking the first day back pictures and then meeting the parents in the parking lot. And then, of course, we had different work obligations and work projects, and so that went on for about two days. And Tuesday, midday, my husband said he looked at me straight in the face and he said, When are you gonna grieve? And I said, I don't know, I just don't have time right now. And and what a weird and crazy thing to even say. And and I just like love that he asked me that question because I he knew that I hadn't lost it yet. I hadn't fallen apart, I hadn't really like talked about it or gotten into my eternal experience at all. And that night after the kids went to bed, I just lost it. And the tears came and I finally like just like fell apart in his arms. And I was like, Well, I guess I'm gonna grieve now, you know, like here's the time. And it's just such a funny thing that I think in our culture we are told like, push on, move on, there are things to be done. Who's got time for that? And it was only when I was able to get really still and really silent and back into my body and and just nothing else to do, um, that I was able to like, oh my gosh, this was here. And it was under the surface all along. And so all of this to say, like, is this what many people are doing with grief? Are we saying, like, not now? I don't have time for that, maybe later. Oh, yeah. And what do we, what do we do?

Angela: 15:55

Yeah, we are. And part of it is because we don't want to feel that feeling. It's it's really tough. They're the emotions are really strong. And also, we are told that we shouldn't cry, that we should be strong, that we shouldn't be jealous, that we shouldn't be angry, that we shouldn't be all of these things, right? And so we're trying to be the that person that we've told we were told we should be. And it just doesn't work because as I said, grief is a process, and part of this process is that emotions will come up and you have to address them. And I was guilty too of you know being really busy, and I that's still my go-to, you know. If I'm starting to feel, I just get busier and busier and busier. Yep. And now I know it, right? And it's interesting watching myself do that and then have to stop myself and say, okay, no, you need to sit down, have some quiet time, and let this process.

Ryann: 17:04

Yeah. Oh, it's so multifaceted, and I love that emotions came up because as children, you know, I I thought there were three emotions. I thought it was like happy, sad, mad, you know, that it's it's very nuanced, right? And um, like you said, and I never thought about it like this, but our first kind of set of grief is like separating from our mom. Like, you know, going coming out into the world and looking at the bright lights, or you know, if you were blessed to be like born at home or something, or at a birthing center, maybe it's like a little more mellow, but being like, oh my God, what is this place? Right. And having it start so young. And then as toddlers were told, like, here, have a cookie, or no, don't be sad, or you're fine, you're okay. And so it's this very, very deep process of indoctrination where we've been told not to feel. And it's like, well, why would we feel now? Why would we start now? Right. So I'm curious if for you this was your first time in your life that you had to feel and if you realized, like, oh, well, here it is, because you said life was good. You were chugging along, like everything was great. And then the bottom fell out. So how did you learn how to feel? And was that like your first hurrah with learning to feel your feelings?

Angela: 18:28

Yeah, it was actually. And I probably wouldn't have figured that out so quickly, except I had a grief coach. And that was kind of the first thing she taught me was that you have to address these emotions. Like you can't, she equated it to holding a beach ball under water, and you can keep that under there for a while, but then eventually it's gonna fly up in your face, right? And I remember back, you know, when I had emotional moments, they were tsunamis, like there wasn't this nice little cry. It was like once the floodgates opened, it it didn't stop, you know, and it was just yeah, and I think about that now, and I think the reason was I was holding everything, I was holding it all the time. And when it blew up, it there was no stopping. And so now I find, you know, if I take the time and I have my little cry, or I write, or I go for a walk, or I do the things that help release that energy, then you know, it doesn't have to be. It can be, but it doesn't have to be the tsunami.

Ryann: 19:50

Yeah. I had a period of my life where I said, I would say so often, like, if I start crying, I will never stop. I'm so afraid I will never stop. Like, I won't be able to climb out of this just like dark hole. And for me, I lost my dad when I was like basically a toddler. He divorced, him and my mom divorced, and then we moved to a different state, thousands of miles away. And so I never had a relationship with him. And throughout my childhood, it, you know, it wasn't talked about, right? It was the 80s, and I think we knew some back then, but my, you know, my parents weren't interested in finding me a therapist and having me journal my feelings out. Like it was just like, okay, moving on. Like we come on. Like my mom like got remarried. She's like, let's buy a little house, let's have a nice little life, like everything's good. But me, you know, as this kid, it was I remembered and I, you know, and I it something always just like felt off. But years later, decades later, I was like, oh no, here's the beach ball coming up from the water. And I had it happened to coincide with the time I had kids, like, you know, very, very divinely orchestrated, and it was all for a reason, right? But so I had to wait decades, and finally the beach ball came up, and I was just like, oh my God, I'm never gonna feel normal again. And um, the truth was what felt normal was just like numbing, ignoring, you know, kind of sidestepping those those hard feelings. And you said you hinted to like all feelings are is energy. And so what makes us so scared to to feel what we're feeling inside our body? Like, where do you think that almost like primal fear comes from?

Anglea: 21:52

Yeah, well, I think it does come from when we're little and we're told not to, because if you notice, you know, babies will just cry. They're not they're not stopping it. Doesn't matter what you say or what you don't know.

Ryann: 22:06

They're like, Oh, I shouldn't cry right now. Let me dry my eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they cry and they they'll but they'll go forward.

Angela: 22:12

And they just, you know, they move through whatever it was, um, and they they move and they are able to let go of whatever. And we like to hang on and resist, and it's painful, it's really, really painful. And so when you talk about being in that dark hole, we sometimes refer to it as the dark night of the soul, you know, like that that place where you don't think you're ever coming out, you're stuck in that hole. I was there, it was Mother's Day, and I I wasn't prepared, I didn't think that Mother's Day would be an issue. I I don't know why, but I just thought, you know, I'd been through Christmas, I'd been through Easter, and that was tough, but I thought Mother's Day will be okay. It's about my kids, right? But no, I was missing my husband, you know, bringing me the flowers or taking me out to dinner or whatever. And I just went into this spiral, and I remember sitting and thinking, I'm never coming out of this. Like I'm in this now, and asking all the questions like, why am I still here? Why is my husband gone? Why did all of this happen? You know, what is life about anyway? I don't even know if I believe anything. You know, you just get into this place. Yeah. And it's it's not pleasant. It really isn't. And so I always recommend when you get into that place to find some support because walking through that by yourself is tough. It is.

Ryann: 24:01

Yeah, that's the time to call the practitioner, the therapist, the the really trusted friend, you know, somebody, somebody, right? Um, and that's actually what I did. I worked with a number of different practitioners and therapists and and healers, et cetera. Um, and it turns out I got stuck a little bit in like a healing loop, which I've been talking about kind of a bit on the podcast, of like, of like never being done, never being good enough. And that was for certain like a limiting belief of like, well, I have to keep working at healing. Like I'm not healed yet. Like I'm not done. Uh, and I think um it's an important distinction to remember of like getting into that loop then, because it's the same loop, it's the same dark hole, it just looks a little bit different, but you're still kind of stuck in this wheel of suffering a bit. What's your take on that?

Angela: 24:54

Yes, oh, absolutely. Yeah. And and the funny thing is, is that, you know, when I stepped into spirituality, it was like, okay, well, now I've got it figured out, right? I understand what my truth is. I'm I'm this spiritual being, and you know, everything's good. And then the human part of you is screaming at you. Yep. You need to acknowledge that you are a human on this earth, and I don't like what's happening here. And I it took me a long time to recognize that she needs that attention too, not just the spiritual aspect. And so, yeah, it's bringing you down to earth and it's it's helping to ground you. And um it it takes support and somebody that knows the path to kind of help walk you through that.

Ryann: 25:52

Yeah. I picture all of us as like, you know, little, little whatever, I don't know, little humans, whatever, something on this like kind of windy path, right? And we each are sort of holding like a torch up, and there's like people behind us, like, okay, like they can kind of see the light in this like kind of woodsy foresty type place. And we're all kind of like following these torches of light, right? And and saying to the people behind us, like, come on, just trust you're like you're on the right path, like follow that light, right? And I, you know, there have been many teachers that I've followed that light for. Um, and so yeah, I agree. It's so important to have somebody who can reflect the the beauty and the light and the hope and the love that's like always available, even in that dark place, you know, even when it feels like it's just not possible. Um, I love that metaphor. So can we talk about what the difference between grief and mourning is?

Angela: 26:55

Oh, absolutely. So mourning really is the process of expressing the grief, and it is probably the most important part if you want to move through grief and you want to help yourself heal and let go. That is what we need to do. We need to mourn. And mourning doesn't have to be crying necessarily, although I find that a really good outlet. Um, there's writing, there's drawing, there's painting, there's cooking, there's all kinds of ways. And I think everybody has their own thing that they love to do. Walks in nature generally help everybody. And I can't stress enough, you know, getting outside, getting your feet on the ground, getting with the trees or the water or whatever you've got, even a plant, you know, anything to connect with nature so that you you can feel that support and nurturing from the earth. I think we've all forgotten that. We we just didn't realize that that's that's part of the process of living here is that we're being nourished by the earth. And we forget that we need to connect with that in order to receive that nourishment. And everybody knows a good walk can make you feel so much better. Um, getting out in a park near the trees, listening to the water, watching a sunset, watching a sunrise, those all are ways to replenish and nourish ourselves when we're feeling really in a tough place.

Ryann: 28:48

Yeah. So mourning is the outward expression of the grief. So is the grief on the inside, like it's the feeling inside of our bodies, and then the mourning is the external way that we deal with said.

Angela: 29:00

Yeah, like people will define grief as an emotion, like they feel like it's something. And I believe it's it's a process and it's a series of emotions that come up when they are meant to. It's all divine timing. And each of those times that we feel those emotions coming up, if we can check in and take the time to acknowledge them, often there's little messages and things that you're learning from that. And so it's difficult maybe to explain until you've gone through it once or twice, but I've had emotions well up in the middle of a parking lot and wondered what is this about, you know. And maybe, you know, I saw something like a truck that looked like my husband's truck. I had that experience and it just threw me into tears. But it wasn't about the truck, it was about the fact that he had purchased this brand new. Truck, he didn't get time to really enjoy it, you know. He he passed too soon to really enjoy his retirement. And so I was feeling this, you know, longing for him, but also possibly a lot of guilt for still being still alive and him not being able to enjoy his retirement, right? And so when you can get digging deeper into what is at the bottom of that, and you can acknowledge yourself and kind of put your arm around yourself and say, you know what, this is really tough, right? This is this is not easy, then it just seems like that helps to lift it. As soon as you can um acknowledge it or have someone else acknowledge it for you, that really helps too. So it's a process, it's a process of moving through and and helping yourself release some of these things that it's sometimes explained as like an attachment, right? We've got we've we're attached to that person. And then um, as Mary Frances O'Connor explains, you know, your brain has to adjust to the fact that that person isn't there. And you have to go through the motions over and over of redoing things that you've done on a daily basis without them so that your mind can get used to the fact that they're gone. And it takes time. It's not, you know, it's not a quick thing.

Ryann: 31:33

Yeah. So I'm hearing you say that I love how you're framing grief as a process. And I'm hearing you say that it's all these different emotions that are kind of in this larger process. And one of the things my mom kept saying to me after her, this was her mom who passed last week. My mom kept saying, it's so weird. It's so weird. It's so weird. And I was perceiving this, and you know, maybe she'll listen to this and correct me, but um, I was perceiving it in that she was like confused because like she had been kind of uh part of a caretaker role for like a number of years. So she would bring dinner and she would bring breakfast and she would, and so like her day, you know, got completely disoriented because she was so used to going over there, checking in, like going over, checking in. You know, they lived five minutes, seven minutes away. And so she kept saying, It's so weird. I can't explain it. And it seemed like she was almost like confused, like how maybe when I can relate it to like our old dog dying and pulling up to the driveway and like thinking that you're gonna see their face in the window. You know, like you said, your brain needs to kind of like you know, build new patterns in recognizing like that now your life is a little different because of the way you're orienting around that person or that pet. Is that a fair way to say it? Absolutely, yeah.

Angela: 32:59

And the mind kind of freaks out about it. It gets a little um well, and we start thinking we're going crazy because we feel like, you know, they should be just walking in the door, or there should be, you know, I can just pick up the phone and phone them, but no, they're not there, you know. And you start to think, like I was counting myself as two, you know, when we went to a restaurant, because I couldn't get over the fact that he wasn't always there with me. And I'd go to sit down with the kids and I'd be counting six, and there's only five, you know, it's like something's not right here. Um, and and I couldn't stop doing that. It took such a long time for that pattern to reprogram. And I think it's, you know, when we learn our times tables or anything, it takes time for the brain to build those pathways. And so to create new pathways is gonna take time. And I think understanding that can be comforting too, just knowing that, you know, you're not crazy, you're not, there's nothing wrong. It's just your mind needs time to reprogram.

Ryann: 34:12

Yeah, you heard it here first, folks. You're not crazy. It's always a it's always a good affirmation to hear. Like, you're not crazy. Okay, good. Phew. Yeah. Um, yeah, I love that. And also it made me think of there's a quote that says something like, the opposite of depression isn't happiness, it's expression. And so I love the way you describe mourning as this outward expression of what's going on inside painting, walking, crying, uh, talking, right? Um, making something, you know, like being, you know, talking about memories of the person, you know, things like that. That's what I think of. And I wish I like I think in the Jewish religion, there's a thing called sitting Shiva where people, I forget if it's like seven days or 10 days or something, but all like the family and friends like sit for this like amount of time. And I was like, I would just like convert to Judaism to like sit Shiva. Like I think it's the coolest thing for everybody to just like drop everything you're doing and go sit in a house. And like, you know what happens anyway when you get together with your family, whether someone's died or not. Just like all the the healing in action that would take place in that like week or whatever it is, like what an expression of healing that would be.

Angela: 35:45

Yeah. Well, and I think almost all cultures have some kind, well, I wouldn't say almost all, but I in our Western culture, we really don't have that. I mean, we have a tradition of holding some kind of service, and but they actually have, you know, a time frame that you know you're allowed to grieve and and ways to grieve and to support each other, and it's all in place. Yeah, we don't really have that so much. So, and I think we did, we just lost it, and and so we can learn from those other cultures for sure.

Ryann: 36:26

Yeah, and creating something that works in your own family, in your own system, right? Uh, we are so my grandfather passed a few years before my grandmother, and they didn't hold a service for him. My mom has five brothers and sisters, so six including her. And I was like, how come like nobody's like honoring grandpa? And they wanted to wait to do it with the two of them, which I understand, like in a way. But I was like, aren't we gonna like talk about this? Like, aren't we gonna like gather in his memory and like you know, do this thing? But we are now, we are now, as it turns out. Um so yes, it'll be a beautiful, kind of a beautiful little, you know, honoring of them. And it's interesting, uh, 10 days before my grandmother passed was her 98th birthday, and multiple members of the family got together for her 98th birthday, and we threw her like this pretty extravagant, sweet little party with a magician came. I mean, it was really, it was really quite like silly and fun and um like something that she loved. But what I noticed is like she was tired and she couldn't really hear the jokes being made. And we all went around the table and we said like our favorite memories of her, and she couldn't, you know, she couldn't really hear and she wasn't really a part of it. And it felt like it was for us, like it was for the family, not necessarily her. Like she was there, her body was there with us, but I think she knew, I think she knew that she was really close to saying goodbye. I think she knew she was really close to death, and she just, you know, kind of hung out and we got some really cute pictures of her, and she was spunky and silly, like in her own little way. Um, but it was just we all like kind of cried and we set our memories, and it was it was for us. It was for the family. And so it was like less about her, more about us. And I think that's a really cool thing for everyone to kind of get together and in honor of somebody, just um, you know, talk about them and and keep that that alive, like that spark alive, so to speak. Um, so what is the best way in your mind, like to hold, I don't know if a celebration of life, but like how would you do it today? Like how what would like maybe what do you want for your celebration of life? I know that's kind of like a crazy question. If you've thought about it, great. If not, like how could we honor like ourselves in transitioning and then the ones we love too?

Angela: 39:15

Yeah, well, I mean, I like the celebration of life, and we did one for Blaine, and it was more about, you know, it was laughing and crying, right? It was the stories that we wanted to share, and and I think it it's a beautiful thing, and we have to continue. So we can't just stop there. And so what I found is with the kids, we'll often say, Oh my gosh, what would dad think about this? Oh, it's like, or do you remember that time when dad did such and such? And when those times come up, um, the first few times, it's almost, you know, heart-wrenching. You know, it's it feels rough, and sometimes there's a lot of tears. Now, um, it's more of a, you know, he's here, he's probably listening. And we're talking about the things that he did, like the crazy things that he said, the crazy things that he did, and some of the wisdom and advice that we had gotten from him. And so it keeps him alive that way. He's still around, he's still here, and I think that's important. You know, you can't just shove it under the rug and never speak of it again. I don't think that's healthy. And so, yeah, yeah.

Ryann: 40:46

I think the theme here too is like almost being witnessed, like having it happen in a group. There's something about speaking it out loud and sharing it with more than you, like more than one person. There's something so powerful about that like collective consciousness of keeping a memory alive. It's almost like love in action. I'm curious of something, what's something culture is getting wrong about grief? Is there anything else that maybe we didn't touch on that culture is getting wrong about it?

Angela: 41:23

Yeah, well, I think when I look at widows now, I find that a lot of them are feeling really lonely. Um and part of it is that your relationships change when you move, you know, when you lose someone. And you're now single rather than coupled, and your friends end up sometimes walking away. Everything really changes. And so the message I like to give people is A, there's hope you can get through this, and you don't have to feel lonely forever. There is a way to move through that, and also that for people that are trying to support someone like that, you have to acknowledge them where they are in their grief. You really can't fix it, and people will try to say platitudes, you know, things that they're in a better place, they wouldn't want you to be sad, da-da-da-da-da, all of that stuff. I mean, it really intentionally people are trying to help, right? But what it does is it's it dismisses it for the person who's grieving. It's like saying, well, you know what, I shouldn't be so sad because he's in a better place. I shouldn't be so sad because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And suddenly the person who's grieving doesn't talk about it anymore. And that is not healthy. So the best thing really is to just be there. To just be there. Make sure that they know that you're around, that if they need to talk, that you're here, that you show up once in a while, take them for lunch, or just send a text once in a while and let them know you're thinking of them. Those things are opening the door for them to express what they're feeling. And that's really what they need is to be able to tell you that you know they're having a tough day, and you to acknowledge that, yeah, like you're gonna have tough days, I'm sure, because this is not easy, right? And not say, Well, you need to let go of that, you need to move on, right?

Ryann: 43:48

That's we say the dumbest shit. We say the dumbest stuff, and it's so well-meaning, but like, it's like, come on, we're because and it's awkward, you know. We've all been in that situation where we're like, oh my god, what do I say? And some of us then just don't say anything, and it's like, okay, well, that's not good either. And it's it is such an awkward thing of like, what do you what do you say to somebody? And I think this brings it full circle back to that emotional sovereignty, that being so comfortable in your own emotional space, in your own sovereignty, that you can hold space for somebody else's pain without needing to wish them away from that pain and without thinking that you're gonna get sucked into their pit. Like, you know, knowing that it's not contagious, like, oh, I don't want to get into that, you know, like let's not go there. I don't want to have a big cry fest. So I'm so glad you brought that up. That is such a a gift. And thank you for your work. How do we find you, follow you, learn how to work with you, et cetera? And get your book. Yeah. And listen to your podcast, might I add.

Angela: 45:00

Yeah, so healingenergy.world, that is my website. Everything is there. The links to the book, the links to the podcast, um, my newsletters, and also, you know, I do angel readings, I do energy healing. Um, you can find it all there. And I have a support group as well that's welcome, everyone's welcome to join. Um, it's on Zoom. We hold it about every 10 days or so, and it's been going on for about three years now. I've got a lot of core people that have been with me from the beginning that have had so much experience and share a lot of wisdom. So if you want um a little bit of support and you want to check that out, we basically talk a lot about the afterlife. We talk a lot about mediumship, we talk a lot about you know, acknowledging people in their grief. And there's everybody in there: people who have lost children, people who have lost spouses, um parents, grandparents, all kinds of different losses, divorces. So it's a place where you can connect with someone who maybe has a similar experience to you, and even connect outside the group. That's happened before. And then you don't feel so alone, right? You've got someone else to share with.

Ryann: 46:32

What a gift. Okay, so now that we're wrapping up, I'm gonna ask you the three questions I ask everybody at the end of the interview. And the first one is what's bringing you joy today, Angela?

Angela: 46:44

Oh, you know what? I discovered that joy really is friends and family, the connections with friends and family. And the more connections that I make with even people who are strangers, the more joy I get. You know, meeting you has been a pleasant, wonderful, delightful experience. And it brings me a lot of joy to be able to connect with people.

Ryann: 47:14

Same. I love that. What, if anything, are you reading right now?

Angela: 47:19

I do a lot of self-help. And right now there's a book called You Are a Badass. I can't remember the author's name.

angela: 47:31

Oh my gosh. I'm loving that book.

Ryann: 47:36

I love the way she writes. It's like chatting with a friend. She's a great writer, and I love her um approach. I I that's one of the first personal development books I read. I love that one. Such a good one. I think that's on the book list too. Um, I've got a book list going from all the recommendations from the authors and experts who've been on the show. So I think that's on there. If not, I'll have to put it on. And then the last question I have for you, Angela, is who or what has taught you the most?

angela: 48:05

I would say grief has taught me the most that I've ever learned in my lifetime. Um, there's been a lot of pain, but there's been a lot of awakening through that pain and transformation in my own life and a joy and a happiness that I wouldn't have experienced otherwise. It seems weird to say that because I lost my husband and that was devastating, but I feel emotions in a totally different way now. And the joys are extremely joyful. And so it's just, you know, it's a different life. Um, I'm not saying that the previous life wasn't wonderful, but the new life has been amazing as well. And I'm really looking forward to the future.

Ryann: 49:00

Beautiful. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us, Angela. Thank you for having me. It's been a delight.